[Level Cap] The news of level cap raises has stopped my motivation

[treato]

As the title states, the news of bi-annual level cap increases has taken away any motivation I had left to play.

I have 13 chars - all 75 plus and 6 at cap. As with any MMO, content is drip fed as fast as the developers can but what makes it worth playing is how they flesh it out by way of achievements in between. (1st agers, top armour and jewells etc)

But now with what is looking like everything having to be updated more often, this has demotivated me to even sign in let alone work my other alts up. I know this sounds contradictory but getting more content is one thing but having level raises more often is another thing entirely.

I guess what I'm saying is that this news has made me for the first time feel like giving up on a game I really Love.
I will as a lifer always follow the storyline just to see the content and areas.

Has anybody else felt the same way or is it just me....

News of multi-level cap raises has me more excited than ever. I play one character and will be awesome to look forward to xp meaning something again, as well as more trait tree points, deeds, virtues etc.

[TearMaker]

News of multi-level cap raises has me more excited than ever. I play one character and will be awesome to look forward to xp meaning something again, as well as more trait tree points, deeds, virtues etc.

But why does more content have to equate to level increases?

You can expand your character sideways by moving through a content area to receive trait tree points, deeds, virtues etc. - it doesn't have to mean there needs to be a level increase which brings with it a host of other changes....

Let's face facts - 5 levels would take a couple of hours of intense gameplay, so it isn't the grind of the levels themselves... it's the Armour, jewels and weapons etc also needing updated that are my problem.

By all means add Armour, jewels and weapons with better stats after completing the new faction content for those who don't mind or have the time to strive for these things every few months but leave the level increase to once a year at most.

That way your character can get stronger and feel more experienced without the need for umpteen level raises.

[Ixad]

But why does more content have to equate to level increases?

You can expand your character sideways by moving through a content area to receive trait tree points, deeds, virtues etc. - it doesn't have to mean there needs to be a level increase which brings with it a host of other changes....

Let's face facts - 5 levels would take a couple of hours of intense gameplay, so it isn't the grind of the levels themselves... it's the Armour, jewels and weapons etc also needing updated that are my problem.

By all means add Armour, jewels and weapons with better stats after completing the new faction content for those who don't mind or have the time to strive for these things every few months but leave the level increase to once a year at most.

That way your character can get stronger and feel more experienced without the need for umpteen level raises.

With this thought I agree.

One of the single best systems I have seen when it comes to expanding a game without changing the underlying principles is/was M:TG. Each expansion has come with new mechanics, a new flavor, a new story arc, but the fact that there is something newer and shinier does not make obsolete the things that have come before (observe the look on a new player's face when they see a classic match turn one win...).

Obviously, this is not P&P, it is not a CCG, but the foundations upon which any good game design is built are not so dissimilar IMHO.

I too have left the game for extended periods of time rather than to face another mindless grind. Each player has their own priorities, something they hope to gain. For me, it is the contribution to a group accomplishment that drives me to play, and not some exp/grind treadmill.

[q945]

I'm worried what this will mean for stat inflation. We saw a huge amount of inflation from 85 -> 95 so we would be forced to run content to get new gear. How much inflation will they have to add (on to the current rediculous base) to make us upgrade from 95 -> 100?

Maybe they will try some gimmick like adding a new stat that is only on the new gear (finesse, critical defence), or new damage type or new mitigation type <shudder>. Anyone remember radiance?

[TearMaker]

Anyone remember radiance?

I would take radiance back in a heartbeat against 2-3 small level increases per year.
At least with radiance there was a common goal and something to strive for. A sense of community spirit in helping those without it to attain....

Don't get me wrong it was flawed in so many other ways but at least you could compete (not in instances) on a semi-equal footing with other players whereas a level increase forces everyone to completely change armour, jewels and weapons.

And to force this on us in smaller increments and more often just smacks of some accountant influencing decision making at the ground level.

We know this game has to be paid for, it's not a free game but De-motivating loyal players by this blatant nonsense is a real shame.

[Rothan117]

Between not liking the new trait system much, hating the big battles and the generally mediocre quality of the quest content in HD, I have gone from having 8 toons at cap to having one toon at 95 and the rest abandoned at 85 in RoR with no interest in leveling them at all.

The rapid level cap increases only exacerbates my disinterest in picking my alts back up. Not much point in keeping up with them all when keeping up with crafting increases is pointless due to rapid level cap increases making the patterns you just learned obsolete yet again.

[Marcho_Brandybuck]

In fact, I look forward to the new lv cap. It would be pointless to throw out new content that contains a region of this size without the extra levels. I expect something like a great river (group content in an open world and at least some classic 6 or 3 man instance) .. I do not want a new wildemoore or entwood. And as for those who are already whining about his FA easily acquired items and weapons : FA lv 95 item will most likely be better than lv 105 2nd age item (champ runes, etc. ..)

[Castorix]

FA lv 95 item will most likely be better than lv 105 2nd age item (champ runes, etc. ..)

95 better than 105 ?

If you compare 85 and 95,
For example, Guardian Sword :

85 1A : 212-354, 149.1 DPS

95 1A : 322-537, 226.1 DPS
95 2A : 309-516, 217.1 DPS
95 3A : 307-511, 215.1 DPS

+ better relics, legacies, ...

[RJFerret]

A lv 95 item will most likely be better than...

Each time in the past, a third age five levels higher has had higher DPS than a first age (even with full crystals, which essentially makes for just a two level difference).

Obviously if you are talking about class items with percentage based legacies or cooldowns, level matters not, aside from the available relics. However since relics are now a valuable way to get mitigations, it has impact. Obviously rating based legacies are level dependent.

This, of course, presumes they even make symbols/delvings/empowerments/title scrolls/crystals available for these odd cap raises. They've consistently made relics with each new region even without cap raises, so I'd fully expect those.

But without any new challenging content to use such tools in, it'll kind of be pointless.

[Rowellan]

Makes me think about good ol' DAoC - a game that I played for 7 -8 years. Had 9 or 10 expansions and not ONE increase in level cap. When the game was first released the level cap was 50 and it staid 50. Yet all the expansions where fun and worth buying and playing. Not that our character's did not advance with the expansions. They did. But it was done with other then advances in level cap. New abilities that could be acquired by completing new instances in the new zones. New character's released to play. The expansions had new area's to explore from level 1 to 50. Yet not one expansion ever required new gear. As time went on one did typically get some of the new gear available in the new zones but it was not absolutely necessary.

I hope turbine can adopt this model as time goes forward.

Actually it was the race for perfect gear that in the end made me stop playing DAoC - that and the elitist behaviour of some of the 8vs8 group players... something I regretted deeply.
Still I hear ya on the sideways progress... it's something that makes more sense to me than piling more levels on top.

Especially for new players - when I started playing again last fall I looked at the raised level cap and had to swallow really hard... Level 95 looked as far away as Mars. Now I've made it to 82 with my highest character and with U13 hitting I'm back to grinding virtues (oh joy! *ugh*). If things go on that way it feels as if I'll never be able to "catch up".

[TearMaker]

Especially for new players - when I started playing again last fall I looked at the raised level cap and had to swallow really hard... Level 95 looked as far away as Mars. Now I've made it to 82 with my highest character and with U13 hitting I'm back to grinding virtues (oh joy! *ugh*). If things go on that way it feels as if I'll never be able to "catch up".

I wonder what the new player long term rate is?

It would be interesting to see how many new - new players actually battle way through 95 levels to get to end game, or just give up after reaching a couple of book landmarks like Bree and Rivendell.

I'm guessing through my narrow experience of trying to help friends through that they probably stop around or before Moria time.

This must be a concern to the Dev team who must be aware that no new blood is eventually quite terminal to a game. We can see with the cuts that are already happening budgets are in decline and further cuts will happen.

Turbine must start to encourage new players by thinking outside the box... like with the new beorn class starting at 50. I know there is a lot off QQ about this but all classes should be given this option if you want to attract new blood.

There should definitely be a cap on level 95 for a few years with sideways advancement only and more emphasis put on new player experience to swell the coffers which will help this game get to Mordor and beyond.


PS. Sack the accountants.... when times get hard in business, the best way to get out of trouble is to invest in your core assets..... US !!!! (by the way for those money men, invest means: put (money) into financial schemes, shares, property, or a commercial venture with the expectation of achieving a profit)

[Gilean-EU]

Gaining experience and new levels is pretty much a foundation of every role-playing game there is, including LOTRO. At least in my books. Level cap is more or less literally end-game to me, so I welcome every raise in level cap with open arms. Also, I really really wish there will be an option to start from level 1 with this new beorning race/class, if I have to start from lvl 50 I feel that someone has already played half of the game for me...

As for growing sideways... The way I see it is that the more we grow sideways, the more we "lose" when level cap goes up.

[Leopoldio]

But why does more content have to equate to level increases?

You can expand your character sideways by moving through a content area to receive trait tree points, deeds, virtues etc. - it doesn't have to mean there needs to be a level increase which brings with it a host of other changes....

Let's face facts - 5 levels would take a couple of hours of intense gameplay, so it isn't the grind of the levels themselves... it's the Armour, jewels and weapons etc also needing updated that are my problem.

By all means add Armour, jewels and weapons with better stats after completing the new faction content for those who don't mind or have the time to strive for these things every few months but leave the level increase to once a year at most.

That way your character can get stronger and feel more experienced without the need for umpteen level raises.

Totally agreed on that and overall with topic starter.

But seems like turbine is out of ideas how to make the gameplay good and fun without that.
Moreover, turbine doesnt care about us, our opinions, only our pockets.

2 level increases per year means -> 2x revenue from legacies and all other legendary stuff + traits/virtues (who buy em like i am) + increase XP gain + lots of other stuff, like new areas regions and so on.

It is all about money. Grinding over and over - is just the most stupid thing in MMO, thats why players start to use macro'es and so on. Because game becomes dumb.

As for LoTRO - there are 2 options for end game:
- PvMP
- You grinded everything, got maxed lvl/LIs -> u stop playing until next expansion - that means a loss of money for turbine (unless u r dude who has no RL, and most u can do - is pointless running same old instances over and over). That explains their hurry with that.

[bobbylobs]

At first I hated the idea but now after consolidation I have decided its no longer anything to worry about.

Thanks to BBs and what I thought was a very dull and tedious levelling experience in HD, and the even worse grind that came in u13 with the entwood, I have shelved all of my alts and wont ever return to them.

So for me the news that there will be 2 level cap raises is ok, It confirms my decision was the right one I can now follow the story with my main and my main alone, I no longer have to keep up with Min/Maxing my toons for raids and the suchlike so FAs and max points is no longer a drama, so I can just relax and play new content once, leave, come back when new stuff is released check it out and go elsewhere again.

I have gone from wanting to have a dps,tank and heal class all end game raid ready and all the issues that come with that (gear,jewellery,food, not to mention 6 LIs that need maxing) to just casually showing up now and then, bimbling through new content and not concerning myself with LIs, top notch gear and whatnot, so 5 level increase for me isn't an issue really. If I dont like it the first time, its no biggy, I wont be doing it again, if there is a grind involved somewhere, again no biggy just skip it its no longer essential for me to do.So level increase gives me a reason to play.I have the deeds for the instance clusters done on my main, so I have no reason to re run them again, my kin died a while back so I have no real in game connections that pull me into the game again.

Its all good, I am no longer VIP but have a stack of TP that will see me through to the end, certainly no longer spending it on relic removal scrolls, star-lits, remembrance crystals, tomes etc etc so its there for new content. In fact it all works nicely as it gives me more time to join my old kinnies in the new games they have left for.

I can understand why it would be a problem for players still keeping several alts going, but if you really arent looking forward to doing that, drop em and stay with 1 or 2, you will get much more enjoyment from the content that way.

[Jillymala]

I can understand why it would be a problem for players still keeping several alts going, but if you really arent looking forward to doing that, drop em and stay with 1 or 2, you will get much more enjoyment from the content that way.

I agree with you. I used to have all my alts raid ready for any given situation. With HD and the newest gating of points behind BB and HD quests, I stopped messing around with alts and stick to one or two. I'll keep the rest as my guilded crafters and space taker upper vault chars. There really isn't any reason to have all classes now anyways as no one does raids much anymore and since there is nothing on the horizon I will never need to max out all my chars again or spend any money on them. I actually am starting to see the monetary benefits of it now and as soon as I grind out the rest of my points to purchase the last regions I don't have I'll never have to spend money in this game again unless I prefer to pay real money instead of TP for future content which is highly unlikely at this point.

[Stormtower]

Time- and MC-gated grindfests like Fangorn do nothing to encourage players to stay & enjoy Middle-Earth.

These are the worst, most boring and transparently grindy types of content that Turbine has produced for LotRO.

No more Hytbold and Fangorn/Seed Box grinds! This is the opposite of heroism and it turns players off to your game.

Seems like most players here care about -- Immersion in Middle-Earth's beautiful landscapes, seeing the story through to the end when the Ring gets dunked, and (the so-called "vocal minority") fun instance dungeons & raids.

If Merry and Pippin had to grind for seed boxes before going to war in Gondor, they'd have never made it due to dying of boredom.

Weak design with the 13.1 "content."

Glad my kin & I have the SoA and Moria content to enjoy instead! Real gaming.

[Nymphonic]

For me, I love the leveling. I hate the disposable LIs. LIs are like th fast food McDonald's version of gear. Granted, you also have to change armour and jewelry as well, but they don't have constant relic management.

[Lycoria]

[QUOTE=SabrielofLorien;7162659]Thanks for the tip that the XP Disabler was on sale in the store this week! I just bought a box car load of them. My alt count was bit off: I had to buy 20 to cover all of them. There are some alts I won't equip with them so I have some extras. I'll save those for the new class alts.


I also have spent all my available TP on XP disablers while they are on sale. I think it's a shame to have to buy them, other games allow XP to be disabled without cost. I also think it's a shame that it only takes 4 or 5 quests to outlevel the Shire, I love that zone but with crafting now included in XP you need the XP disabler to finish a zone or to get Kindred Rep in any zone without it going gray. What is this crazy rush to endgame ?? I have one level 95 past Isengard and in Fanghorn, I have two others in the low 90s and even more at lower levels but there is no rush to get anywhere. The "Big Battle" is not even worth doing much less rushing to end game to do. I prefer to quest and explore and enjoy the journey and if I have to spend TP to do it I willl for now but I don't like the concept that to play the game my way forces me to buy items to slow down leveling. I left EQII after 6 years of play simply because the endgame rush overwhelmed any other type of gameplay and I see the same thing happening in LOTRO. Very sad.

[Stormtower]

"Stone of the Tortoise" means never having to say you're sorry that the cool parts of the game are over.

I don't completely hate the RoR expansion, but the stuff prior was heads & shoulders above it and above HD in quality... mostly because ROI, Mirkwood & Moria had (wait for it) instances & raids.

[cdq1958]

I agree - The whole idea is very disheartening. It is just sad. It makes me feel even more so that micro transactions rule this game. Rule it and ruined it. The only reason for the continual trickling of new gear is it drives spending in the store, not because it makes the game more fun. When we hit 95 I thought, bah I wont bother gearing up with new stuff until the new first agers come out and the new and better gear and jewelry that always accompanies the new zone that is released after hitting the new level.

Then at the same time the new zone and 1st age 95's come out they announced that a few more months and the lvl cap would go to 100. It just makes me think. Sheesh there is no sense ever getting any new gear other then what just drops in my bags as I play. Turbine said when they started the f2p model that they would not let it change the game. But it has. A steady drip drip of new gear that people need buy scrolls for and relics for and crystals for. All available in the store. This is the only reason I can see for this behavior.

Makes me think about good ol' DAoC - a game that I played for 7 -8 years. Had 9 or 10 expansions and not ONE increase in level cap. When the game was first released the level cap was 50 and it staid 50. Yet all the expansions where fun and worth buying and playing. Not that our character's did not advance with the expansions. They did. But it was done with other then advances in level cap. New abilities that could be acquired by completing new instances in the new zones. New character's released to play. The expansions had new area's to explore from level 1 to 50. Yet not one expansion ever required new gear. As time went on one did typically get some of the new gear available in the new zones but it was not absolutely necessary.

I hope turbine can adopt this model as time goes forward.

I don't. To me, the DAoC model ruins what I love about this game. Gear? I'm indifferent. Instances/raids? Same indifference there as well. PVP? I loathe this, mostly (only SW:G's space PVP interested me). New zone, new level, new things to make, and more story. I love it. I never feel as if I'm not progressing.

LIs? I believe that I've never bought anything related to those, samplers excepting, and even then, I typically make do with what I get. As far as I'm concerned the store is good for swift travels, storage and zones/expansions.

[Dernudan]

I like the idea of lvl cap increases. I like how how you can advance your characters that way.

However, the grind that comes with it (with the LIs) is too much. If Turbine revamped the LI system to allow your weapons to lvl with you and stuff like that, the raises would be much less controversial. It would remove a lot of the grind to get them and allow players to have a weapon that is truly legendary, a weapon that you always carry by your side.

[BangoTwinkletoes]

Not so much concerned about the lvl cap increase - that kind of goes with the territory when it comes to MMOs. More worried about the scope of the content that we'll have to work through those levels.

[Nymphonic]

I like the idea of lvl cap increases. I like how how you can advance your characters that way.

However, the grind that comes with it (with the LIs) is too much. If Turbine revamped the LI system to allow your weapons to lvl with you and stuff like that, the raises would be much less controversial. It would remove a lot of the grind to get them and allow players to have a weapon that is truly legendary, a weapon that you always carry by your side.

Yes, this a million times. I love level advances. But those LIs are just too much.

[Hurin]

Yes, this a million times. I love level advances. But those LIs are just too much.

And yet "fixing" LIs to make this less of a problem would potentially result in a decrease in Store sales for Scrolls of Empowerment, Scrolls of Delving, Starlit Crystals, Legacies, +1 Legacy Slot, and all the other cash cows in the heavily monetized LI system.

[Leixy]

Of course, designing a LI system where a lvl 60 1st age can be upgraded to a lvl 95 1st age may bring easy mode problems to LotRO.